A Word To The Wise
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A Word To The Wise
142. Navigating Relationships: What Women Get Wrong About Men Ft. Jeanell Greene
Jeanell, the Relationship Coach and Marriage Expert, is well-known for saving countless marriages from loneliness and divorce while also addressing generational trauma within families that hold us back from what we truly want: True Connection and Love. Her passion lies in rekindling the 'best friend' dynamic for couples, allowing them to rediscover profound love, peace, and fun partnership.
With a background that includes overcoming childhood trauma, infidelity, and divorce, Jeanell now thrives in a beautiful 17-year marriage that once seemed like a pipe dream inspiring her commitment to helping families heal and thrive.
Relationships are a dance, and men often find themselves unsure of the steps, especially when it comes to expressing emotional needs. Jeanell shares her insights, drawn from her diverse clientele, including those in the public eye.
We discuss why so many people struggle in relationships, what women get wrong about relationships, and how trauma plays a role in our relationships, when it’s time to let go of a relationship, and why the word “narcissist” is over used in romantic discourse.
Where to find Jeanell:
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Hello everyone and welcome back to the A Word to the Wise podcast, a space where we curate conversations around mind, body, spirit and personal development. I'm your host, jumi Moses. On the show today is Janelle Green. Janelle is a relationship coach and marriage expert, and she is well known for saving countless marriages from loneliness and divorce, while also addressing generational trauma within families that hold us back from what we truly want, and that is true connection and love. Her passion lies in rekindling the best friend dynamic for couples, allowing them to rediscover profound love, peace and fun partnership.
Speaker 1:Janelle has a background that includes overcoming childhood trauma, infidelity and divorce, and Janelle now thrives in a beautiful 17-year marriage that once seemed like a pipe dream, which has inspired a commitment to help families heal and thrive. Janelle firmly believes that self-love and forgiveness are necessary to be in a happy and healthy relationship and that couples can attain the marriage they've always desired by embracing healing, growth and change. About men in relationships and how trauma plays a role in our relationships, when it's time to let go of a relationship, and why the word narcissist is overused in romantic discourse, and much more. I really enjoyed my conversation with Janelle and I think you guys will as well. Let's get into the show. Janelle, welcome to A Word to the Wise. Thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 2:I'm really excited to speak with you Same Thanks, jimmy.
Speaker 1:I want to start off by asking you what is your life motto?
Speaker 2:I have a few. I think you know there's. I would say there's three. I think the first one is everything happens for a reason and it's perfect. The second one would be make it count. I think we live a life where we think we have all the time in the world and we're going to live forever. So every day I try to make every moment count. And the third one I wrote is be the change. Be the change you wish to see in the world. Don't wait for other people to lead. Be the leader. So those are the three that I really picked out for myself.
Speaker 1:Those are great mottos and it kind of I mean just hearing you talk about it everything happens for a reason be the change you want to see in the world, coupled with the work that you do as a life coach and a relationship coach. So do you feel like those mottos have kind of shaped you into the career that you've chosen for yourself and the work that you do? I know we're not constantly walking through life thinking like I want to embody this motto, yeah, but do you feel like you know these mottos have kind of translated into the work that you do as a life and relationship coach?
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. I think you know, as humans we are not really wired for growth. I think we're wired more for protecting and survival, and I believe that's why the world and mental health and family in general are not, are broken and not working, because we have many of us have not been given the nurturing, the role, the, the, the teachers in our lives to show us the way. And so I think it's really about stretching ourself, getting uncomfortable, but also loving who we are and where we've been, because we cannot get to a place of love and joy and connection and fulfillment when we're stuck in this world of fear and resentment and all these low vibrations. And so I think it's really up to us to really challenge ourselves and realize that we're here for a reason. We're not here just to take up space and we're kind of just waiting for that day to come until, you know, god calls us. But it's like you know, I imagine myself, you know, when I turned 40, and this was kind of the moment when I decided to leave corporate and do something way more heart centered I was turning 40 and I was sitting on my couch and I thought about the last 40 years of my life and my background is executive software sales.
Speaker 2:In that industry they pay you a lot of money, they send you on a lot of really amazing trips.
Speaker 2:I had just won a trip to Rome, and the year before that I won a trip to Bermuda, thinking that that was going to make me feel like worthy and that I'm like proving myself.
Speaker 2:And coming back from those trips I realized like okay, but now what? And so I pictured myself at the pearly gates of heaven at the end of my life and St Peter saying to me, janelle, like what did you do with your life? And as extraordinary as my life has been like I've been able to sing in front of Maya Angelou, I have met the Queen of England, like spoke to her, got a picture with her, like I've lived a pretty extraordinary life and it was all about me. And I really wanted the second half of my life to be about others, because I knew that I'm on this planet for a very specific purpose. And I think a lot of us go through life trying to figure out what that is, and I think the other half of us don't even think about it. We're just kind of, we're numb, we're like coasting through life, we're on default and we just react to life rather than creating and being really intentional about where we're going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I, you know, I work in tech as well, not in sales. I'm more on the marketing side of things, but I interface with sales a lot and as you were talking about the different opportunities that come with working in sales, for tech and traveling et cetera, I could relate to that by proxy, I should say. But I do admire that you kind of took a look at your life at 40 after working in corporate for so long and you wanted to do something more heart-centered and, you know, pay it forward and not just focus on things that align, not just focus on you but to share your gifts and focus on other people. So why specifically life and relationship coaching?
Speaker 2:Well. So when I was nine, my dad cheated on my mom with my mom's best friend who lived in our basement, and got her pregnant, and that was when my life completely got rocked right. And even though my parents did get back together again and my mom, you know and this is where I really experienced forgiveness at a whole other level I realized that even though we got our happy ending, I still had a lot of trauma from that experience and I knew how it was showing up, like. I saw the impact, but I couldn't get to the bottom of. Why was I the way I was? Why was I? Why did I self-sabotage? Why did I feel like I was unworthy? Why did I choose men that were terrible, the ones I couldn't bring home, the ones my parents were like I don't think so the ones that would cheat on me, the ones that would lie, the ones that would abuse me, like those ones. And so I took a really hard look at myself and I hired a coach to help me figure this out, and she was also helping me with what is my life purpose, and it just completely transformed my life in a very short amount of time and I got to that level of it's almost like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, where we go from like black and white to technicolor. And so I really saw the power of coaching in that experience and I got to heal that little girl, that little nine-year-old within me who, what I later discovered, decided three things and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. But I decided three things and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. But I saw that I created that, or I believe that I was unlovable because I was a daddy's girl and like, why would dad leave me? Right, I can't trust men, I can't trust people, I can't trust myself and, thirdly, everybody I love will leave me. So of course I'm going to go through life not really wanting to find the perfect man because I'm like, well, he's going to leave anyway. So of course I'm going to go through life not really wanting to find the perfect man because I'm like, well, he's going to leave anyway. But of course this was all in the subconscious and so I've been really interested in subconscious work and hypnosis, in coaching. And you know again, with my sales background and being able to win all these different awards, I have a really strong background in goal setting and accountability and that's that sort of rigor. So it's no surprise that most of my clients are men or couples.
Speaker 2:But the other thing I would say is I've also been divorced and now I live in the most incredible, epic love affair with my husband, who is God's gift to me. He is my angel, he is my playmate, he is my cook, he is my cheerleader, he's my muse, and we just laugh a lot. We play a lot of music. He's a guitarist, I'm a singer.
Speaker 2:We just have this amazing, romantic, very soulful and vulnerable relationship that I could have never imagined was possible for me, and I don't think would have been possible for me had I not done the work to heal all that stuff from before, including my divorce and the stuff with my dad and, of course, all the other things that come up when we're a kid right, like even the positive stuff, like my mom is my hero.
Speaker 2:And yet I see now standing back. How you know, being raised by a strong mother who never cried, who never asked for help, who never complained, who always said yes to everybody else, doesn't actually always work, especially for me, and so it was like trying to be someone that I wasn't. And when I finally started to ask for help, when I finally allowed myself to cry, when I allowed myself to be in this thing what we call quote unquote weakness, which isn't even really weakness but when I got to shift that mindset and just embrace who I am authentically now I could really step into my power and that's why I think I'm such a powerful coach.
Speaker 1:Just listening to you talk, I'm really fascinated by what you said relating to the subconscious, Because I do believe that a lot of us have subconscious programming based on trauma that we've endured, based on things that we've seen, and a lot of times we're not aware of those subconscious programming. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I think that when you were talking, it kind of reminds me of you know. A lot of people are in relationships, whether romantic or friendship, or even relationships with their coworkers. We're constantly navigating different types of relationships and there's a story we tell ourselves as we go from, you know, as we interact in these relationships. And I think what you're really talking about, what you had a breakthrough in while going through coaching yourself, was kind of realizing well, why am I attracting these things to me? Or why do I keep maybe dating the same person with different faces?
Speaker 1:And I was listening to a podcast that you were on where you were talking about your first husband and how you were so frustrated in that relationship and you felt like he just was not holding up his end of the bargain. You felt like you were marrying a certain person and you were so frustrated and I believe you said that one day you had an epiphany when you realized that, wait a minute, what is my? How can I hold myself accountable in this relationship and how I show up that there's nothing wrong with this man. He's just not the one for me. And then you guys had a conversation and parted ways amicably. So can you talk about that a little bit more, and a little bit more of the subconscious mind, and how, if we're not aware and if we don't hold ourselves accountable, we might end up operating in relationships that are not self-serving to us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is so easy to put the blame on everybody and everything else because we don't have to be responsible, we don't have to do anything, we don't have to change, we don't have to look at ourselves. It's like showering. We don't have to be responsible, we don't have to do anything, we don't have to change, we don't have to look at ourselves. It's like showering we don't have to, but we choose to, but we don't have to. If we were really lazy, we just don't brush our teeth and wash our faces, but there's an impact to that. And again, I didn't know it. I had no idea that what was going on. All I could see was this man who, if I said left, he said right. If I said good, he said bad, and it was like he resisted me at every level and I'm like man. And then, of course, trying to get him to take responsibility for anything was impossible and I just kept getting so frustrated and I started to become someone that I didn't like. I got really mean, if I'm really honest. I just got the ugliness of me came out and he just, yeah, he pulled that out of me. And so when I did this training around transformation, I remember when they said that I'm actually responsible, like not me, but like the group as a whole was responsible. I got mad. I was like, what Me? I'm the victim how dare you say that? But then I really just it, just like when I actually let my ego go and really just sit with it. I was like, oh, because, yeah, I could choose to blame him, but where would that get me? That would get me, first of all, jaded around marriage and he would hold the power of my life, just like what happened with my dad held the power of my worthiness. And again, it's so easy to just blame other people, our past, especially our parents, so easy to blame our parents. But if we truly, truly want a life by design, by choice, with freedom and joy, we have to be willing to first of all forgive, which is something that most people don't even know the meaning of and also to actually step into someone who we've never been before. And that is scary because that is so foreign.
Speaker 2:When I think about Janelle 2.0 and this badass boss lady who is impacting the planet I'm on TV shows, people are knocking down my door I realize who I am now and that woman. There is a gap, and it's a scary gap because I'm like I don't actually know what that's going to be like. And so I think so many of us, even though we want to lose that 40 pounds, even though we want to find that perfect man, we almost self-s self sabotage that because it's so uncomfortable. But here's the thing, guys like growth is uncomfortable, right, and so I think we need to actually learn to be okay with discomfort.
Speaker 2:And you know, I I'm still learning this, because sometimes, being an entrepreneur, I'm like there's these moments where I'm like man times. Being an entrepreneur, I'm like there's these moments where I'm like man who thought this was a good idea, like I could have just sat back, collected my beautiful paychecks in sales, did this job, like with my hand tied behind my back, like in my sleep. And here I am like, stepping up, dealing with myself, dealing with my ego, dealing with my trust issues, dealing with my not enough, dealing with my not enough, dealing with my who do you think you are? All those things that have stopped me in the past. But then I remind myself this isn't about me and I am robbing the world of my gift if I allow this to be about me.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think one of the hardest things for us as people to do is turn the mirror on ourselves and take a look at ourselves. I think there is something that should be validated in the experiences that we've had that have led to trauma and us developing some of these subconscious thoughts. But at some point we have to take accountability and figure out okay, why am I taking stuff from the past? Why am I taking other people's stuff, like, aka, our parents, for example, or our friends, whoever has had some sort of impact on us? Why am I taking their stuff and still walking around the world with it on my back and then, you know, seeking out the same experiences that were negative and trying to prove to myself again like, yeah, this is why I'm who, I am Right. So, speaking about, you know, with your ex-husband just him bringing that side out of you and then you kind of realizing his actions have nothing to do with you. It's more about how you're showing up in the relationship and what you're choosing to accept or what you're trying to force yourself to align with, that actually no longer aligns with you or you actually have to grow and move forward. And I have an example. You know I'm really close to one of my sisters and we are just very different in terms of how we handle things. She's the type of person that when she's upset it just shows on her face. And you know, growing up that has always been a point of contention between her and I, because I would interpret that as she's just making things difficult and people have to bend towards her and she's, you know, affecting the energy of the room and so that would just trigger me so much. And recently I had this epiphany where I had to take a step back and not necessarily look at her actions but look at why I was so triggered by them and the story I was telling. Right, and we had a conversation where we both held ourselves accountable.
Speaker 1:But I also realized from that that it's okay for people to have uncomfortable emotions and the reason why I'm so uncomfortable is because I can't sit in discomfort when other people are upset. And I trace that back to, you know, witnessing adults. You know in my life whether they could be teachers or aunts and uncles or family members. Whenever they were upset as a young child I felt like it was my responsibility to fix it. So anytime I'm around a loved one or anytime I'm around someone who is emotionally uncomfortable, it's a trigger for me. I internalize it as oh, it's because I did something, et cetera. But yeah, I agree with you If we don't face our stuff, it could, you know, stop us from actually being our true, authentic selves are the best versions of ourselves and the selves that are sharing our gifts with the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everybody. I believe that everybody is our mirror, kind of to your point, right, it's like for me, the example that I can think of right now is my husband. My husband is very sensitive, like he is, he's intuitive, he's sensitive, he's just a soft-hearted man, you know. And growing up again, you know, I had a very strong mother and so whenever my husband would get really like sensitive with me and when I say sensitive, not at me, but like he's just feeling all his feelings right, and I'm not used to that I'd be like I'd try to shut it down. I'd be like, oh my God, you're being too emotional. But Ariel's like, oh yeah, that's my, he is showing me how, like you said, I'm uncomfortable with men showing emotion, like I have it that men should be have put together and yet I am not allowing this person to feel what they're feeling.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a really great point in relationships is that we try to fix each other and we do this when we feel like we need to fix ourselves. But I've discovered that the more I love myself, the more I practice compassion for myself, the more I can have that and give that to others. But if I don't do it for myself. It's going to show up in the way I behave and show up in my other relationships, and so, rather than being like, can you please stop being emotional, it's really. I've shifted that to now. Hey, honey, like you can feel whatever you want to feel, and I'm not and I still love you and I, I got your back and I'm here to support you.
Speaker 2:I think, at the end of the day, that's what people need to hear. But what we do is we go and fix and try to change and make them feel better, or give them solutions or tell them they shouldn't feel that way, and we invalidate them, which then actually makes them feel worse. But we don't realize that because we're just like hey, I'm just trying to help you. But. But we don't realize that because we're just like hey, I'm just trying to help you. But at the end of the day, it's like I don't need your help, I just need you to sit with me, empathize with me, be my friend and just get my communication, just like see me. And this is really what intimacy is, is into me, you see but.
Speaker 2:I feel like so few of us actually love ourselves enough and are emotionally intelligent enough to realize that.
Speaker 2:But what I'm feeling really hopeful about is I think it's since COVID people are starting to wake up and I have, like I said earlier, most of my clients are men who are doctors, lawyers, first responders, who have very masculine if you want to call them jobs, and they come to these calls and they're like yeah, I'm broken and I want to work on myself.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is amazing.
Speaker 2:And these men cry to me like within the first one or two phone calls because they have never allowed themselves or someone in the people in their life have not made them feel safe enough to be with all those feelings.
Speaker 2:And so I find it such a privilege and an honor to be with men in those moments and also the trust that they show within the conversation to be really authentic about their emotions, because I think as women, we think men don't have emotions. Oh, abs, I would attest that men have more emotions than women do. We're just a lot more verbal about it and very sort of outwardly about it. But these men, they suffer and most of them have no permission to feel what they feel or we tell them to man up and they just feel so lost and broken, and so I think for me, it's really just empowering them to say listen, this is good, this is good that you feel, and if you truly want to feel connected to your partner and to who you are as a man, you got to be able to learn to feel things before you can heal things.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I like that. You have to learn how to feel things before you can heal things, and I actually pulled a quote from one of your blogs, one of your more recent blogs.
Speaker 2:I love how you did research. No one ever tells me this. This is like I'm kind of flattered right now.
Speaker 1:Oh, I have to. I was really excited to speak with you and also I want to get the best out of our conversation. And in one of your blogs you wrote emotions are human, not male or female, which I think resonates or ties into what you were just talking about. And I also think it's very interesting that you said a lot of your clients are men.
Speaker 1:I was listening to another podcast with a relationship coach I'm forgetting his name, but he was saying that a lot of his clients were also men and I used to have this perception that when it came to relationships or seeking out life coaching, I just always had this impression that women would seek that out more, just because we tend to be a little bit more in tune, like you said, with our emotions and wanting to get better in terms of understanding our emotional world, etc. So the men that are coming to you are they coming to learn more about themselves so they can show up better in their relationships? What are they seeking out when they actually come to you? Because I find that very interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they come from for all sorts of reasons. Obviously, the first one is how do I win my wife back? Or how do we work, how can I work with my wife better so that we can get to this place? Because usually, you know, most of them come from divorced parents or dysfunctional families and they're at this point now that they're talking about divorce and they really don't want to do that because they don't want to repeat the past.
Speaker 2:I have one client right now who's a lawyer, who's married to another lawyer, and he's at this point in his life that he's like I just don't want to be with her anymore. It's not like anything's wrong, I'm just not happy and I've done all the and we've done the work to make sure that it's not about him and he's just like, yeah, she's just not my person anymore. And so he's been dealing with guilt and the shame of that, because they've got kids and, of course, being someone that's a very high profile you know both of them being very high profile there's some, you know some considerations that they have to make about, like what is the perception of us in this industry? And then I've got other clients that you know their wife has left or said you know, I just want to be friends, or I want to date other people, and they are trying to figure out who, they are trying to love themselves again and not be so attached to her coming back, because at the end of the day, they don't know. And so I really give them the tools and the support to really create a life that, regardless if this person is in it or not, is something they can get really excited about and get their confidence up. And what happens is they start attracting women Like this.
Speaker 2:You know, one of my clients is like, oh my gosh, all these women are calling me and texting me and asking me for my number and wanting to take me to bed and like this is crazy. I don't even know what I'm doing, but it's just like his way of being. His energy is so beautiful, right, but when he came to me he was absolutely broken. So, yeah, they come to me for all all different reasons. Sometimes it's infidelity. How do I forgive myself? How do I get my wife to forgive me and trust me again after I've done this thing? So, yeah, everything under the sun, which is so fun for me because then it's not always the same conversation.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, you know, some people think I'm psychic and I'm like I'm not psychic. I just realized that we're not as different as we think we are. We're all motivated by the same thing and so it's not as complicated like at the obviously in a very basic level, like obviously there's other stuff. But yeah, there's times when people are like, oh my God, how did you know that you must be psychic? I'm like no Sure. If you want to say that, fine, but no, I'm not. I just see the patterns and I can feel, and I'm also very intuitive, so I can feel what's going on and I can put words, especially for men who can't find the words. But as they're sharing, I'm like here's what I'm hearing, and they're like, yes, that's exactly how I feel. So I really help them get the vocabulary and get connected to that. So it's, it's so amazing and I, I love this work so much. It's so much better than selling software, I bet. And you know to your point about them being like how?
Speaker 1:how do you know that? I figured you know to your point about them being like? How do you know that? I figured you know you've been doing this for about two decades now. So I'm sure you can kind of pick up on certain patterns and just kind of understand how certain conversations or certain feelings or emotions that are coming up could be tied into certain feelings or actions etc. So I could see that as well on top of your intuition.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what, if I'm going to be really honest with you, it is really a function of the experiences I have had. It's not even about my education, it's not even I mean, yes, of course, experience, but I would definitely say it's because I've been there. I'm not that other person on the other side that goes oh yeah, I understand, I understand. No, you don't, you've never been there, but I've had so much of life happen to me. I've been bullied, I've been molested, I've been cheated on. I've had so much. And so when a client comes to me, there's very few times that I cannot relate to them, and I think it's energetic too. I think we just attract naturally attract people that are aligned with what we're doing, and so usually, by the time a client gets to me on a consult, I would say 90% of them have gone through something that I've gone through, and I think, at the end of the day, the end of the day, what I see my job is and what people truly, truly are looking for, is to feel gotten to know they're not alone and to validate their existence, because we spend so much time resisting who we are. I should be skinnier, I should be richer, I should be happier. I should, should, should, should, should, right, and to just have them be like, hey, who you are right now is perfect. The fact that you're struggling right now is perfect, the fact that you know it's all perfect. And when we can get to that level of peace and acceptance, and when we can get to that level of peace and acceptance now we can discover this thing called happiness. But I think that very few of us have the tools and the know-how how to be able to find our way out of it. And, to be honest, when we're inside of it and we're in the thick of it, it doesn't matter how many thousands of books and courses we've done. Our survival mechanisms and our defense mechanisms and our stress coping mechanisms will show up. But it's okay.
Speaker 2:When I get there, you know, I might spend a few minutes like dealing with my humanity, but then, once I get out of that, I'm like, okay, I need to go into my toolbox. What do I need right now that's going to have me move through these emotions as quickly as possible? And or is this this moment where I just need to be with the discomfort and just like sit in it, and I usually give myself a certain amount of time. I might you know if it's a big thing which I went through a couple of weeks ago. I promised myself okay, janelle, you'll give yourself till tomorrow. You can cry, you can do whatever you need to do, feel your pity party, and then tomorrow you get back up. So I, you know, I allow myself that grace and space and that's, I think, what I provide to my clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really sounds like you do that, and you said a couple of things that sparked my curiosity, especially with the coach Sorry, especially with the client, who has gotten to the point where he no longer feels that spark with his wife or he feels like he's outgrown her and he's feeling guilt about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And when we think about marriage, when a lot of people think about marriage, they go into it with the intention of till death, do us part, and I think that's also why a lot of people are so scared of being vulnerable and opening up to someone and getting married and having it end. So I want to ask you, and I'm going to ask you down the line when is it time to walk away or when do you think it's okay to give yourself permission to leave a relationship? But I want to start off by asking you first what do you think people get wrong about romantic relationships? Because I feel like sometimes people might be in the clouds and have this sense of everything is supposed to be perfect if you find your person and nobody wants to deal with the difficulties. Some people leave earlier than they should, some people stay in it longer than they should. So again, what do you think people get wrong about the nature of romantic relationships? And that's a loaded question.
Speaker 2:I know I'm like, oh my God, where do I even begin? I would say the first thing is self-love. They go into relationships saying I don't love myself, so I'm gonna go find someone to love me and fill that gap. But that is not the other person's job. The other person doesn't know what you need. They got their own stuff going on right, and we put so much expectation on other people to make us happy. But let's be straight the only person who knows what's going to make us happy is us. But most people don't do the work to figure out what that is Like.
Speaker 2:When I meet with clients, they, you know, they start just telling me all the things they don't like about their life. Right, all the things they want to change. I'm like, okay, great, so tell me what do you want? And they look like I just asked them something in Chinese, you know they're like huh, and they don't even know their value system. So how can you set boundaries with people or even yourself, if you don't even know your value system? And so when I went through my if you want to call it midlife crisis or transition, that was the first place my coach got me to look is like what are my values, because what I realized like I thought that money and success was high on my value system, but when I had that, it didn't matter. So I had to really, really look at okay, what really is it that I value? So that's one thing. I think the other thing is that we have to be able, again, going back to self-love, we have to be able to heal the parts of us that need to be healed. Otherwise, our partner, the other person, is going to be the target, if you will, or the focus of our own unhappiness. And I think the third thing is that we have been programmed by social, especially social media, that it's all about protecting yourself. And I think that although, yeah, you know, sure, that's important, but how can you experience true passion and vulnerability and intimacy when all you're trying to do is keep everyone away from you and to really know who you are? And I think that's why vulnerability is so powerful. And if we can shift the idea that vulnerability is weakness to a place like no, vulnerability is the key to intimacy.
Speaker 2:And being with my husband, this man who just has his heart on his sleeve and just pours love into me 24-7, like I get the power of that and also the responsibility of that, of having a man who just has nothing going on about any of my flaws and just wants to love me and be my partner and create this beautiful life together. That's all he wants from me. But if I'm not careful, I'll either take advantage of that or I'll get into my head and I'll start focusing just on work and I forget that here's this man waiting for me downstairs and I'm working till 11 o'clock at night and then he wants some action from me. But I'm too tired. And now, knowing that his love language is physical touch, and now I'm rejecting him, not because of him but because I'm tired, now that's going to start creating stories for himself and reiterating his childhood trauma of being rejected, and the more I do that, the more that's going to be reaffirmed. So we have to be really careful and very present in our relationships and again, if we haven't done the work, it's so easy to go there.
Speaker 2:And then I would say the fourth thing is expectations. I think we, especially women, we have expectations of how a man, a real man, should be based on our dad, our social media, disney movies, and we think that if it's hard work, that that's bad and that it should just magically come together. And yeah, sure, you know the first three to six, maybe year together. It's easy because we're so committed to creating that connection. But then what happens? When you've been together for 20, 30, 40 years, there's no more kids. You've gone through like the ups and downs of life.
Speaker 2:That's really, really hard, and I think one of the problems I see in when I'm coaching people is that we you know back to what I said 20 minutes ago is that we expect our partner to know exactly what to say to us, exactly what we need, and that we shouldn't have to ask, like we have this belief that if he loved me, he should just know my needs. And so I'll coach a woman. I'll say, okay, well, you say you want reassurance and you say that he doesn't appreciate you, but he's trying and it hasn't worked. So let me ask you what is it that you actually need from him specifically? What do you need him to say? What do you need him to do? Like what?
Speaker 2:And she can't answer my question and she keeps deflecting and being like well, he should just figure it out. Well, guess what? He's tried to figure it out and you've squashed that, and you are setting him up for failure, so let's set him up to win. And then her response is well, then it's inauthentic. Yeah, but his authentic response is not good enough for you. So what do you want? So we have to be responsible for that. And again, I think it's just these beliefs that we ingrained were somehow from somewhere, I don't know where. But to get responsible, like okay, well, what if that wasn't true? And what if it? If the shoe was on the other foot? How would I feel about that? I would feel pretty dang frustrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said so much there. Oh, my God, I don't even know where to start from. Okay, I know where to start from, actually, and I think you hit the head on the nail when you said this, and I heard this from a TikTok therapist. Obviously, tiktok is it's like where I get so much information from, but I was also feeling this way after going through my own personal journey and stuff like that. You know, a lot of times, when it comes to relationships, people are always talking about attachment theory, what a man is supposed to do, what a woman is supposed to do, how you're supposed to show up in a relationship and healing and all that stuff, and that stuff is valid. But you said something where you were like a lot of people don't love themselves, and I that was. You hit that right on the head because I do think that is an important piece that a lot of people are not aware of.
Speaker 1:And somebody might ask what does it mean to love yourself? Loving yourself at least I'm still learning is understanding that you're this human being that is flawed and you're always evolving and you're trying your best and you also have a level of self-respect for yourself, not in a way that you're condescending to other people, but you respect yourself to recognize when someone is not treating you correct and you respect yourself enough to not demean or indignify someone else's experience or personhood. That's what I'm understanding self-love is all about, and so much more. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of stuff there, but I do think a lot of people don't love themselves and they enter relationships hoping their partner can heal a lot of the void that they feel within themselves. I know that some of the more difficult relationships that I've navigated through romantically have come from a point of feeling like something was missing within me and looking for someone else to feel that and literally running crazy when I felt like the person wasn't adhering to my needs or saying the right things. Because the truth of the matter is we're not always going to say the right things. That's just what it is. We're human beings, again, like we're flawed.
Speaker 1:So I really loved that you said that, because when we love ourselves, then we're not putting everything on our partner. I think a lot of people you know put so much on their partners unintentionally. They want their partner to be their best friend. And not saying that this is impossible, because I do think some people are fortunate enough to have very wholesome, loving relationships where their partner is like their best friend and all that good stuff. But, like you said, it takes time to get to that point. Sometimes it takes intentional work, lots of conversations, understanding each other, growing together, et cetera. So everything you said was spot on, but that one really stuck out to me and I don't know if you want to add anything else to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's funny. Just like you were saying, someone said to me hey, Janelle, do you love yourself? I've been like, yeah, sure, why not? Right? But as I go through what I go through as an entrepreneur, as a woman who is really trying to be, quote unquote, enlightened and, you know, a healer, the one thing that I saw that was missing for me, that was never taught to me, was self-compassion.
Speaker 2:I am, you know, a lot of women. We are high achievers, we are perfectionists, we are people pleasers, we want to be superwoman. And the thing that I noticed for myself is I would beat myself up. You know, let's say my goal was $10,000 for the month. That's my goal, okay, I'm going to hit that, I'm going to hit that, and then I only hit $6,000. And then I would beat myself up about it. I would make myself wrong. I'd be like, hey, what am I doing wrong? I would pray to God, god, what am I doing wrong? This shouldn't be so hard and not acknowledging I made $6,000. And I'm helping six new people whose lives are now transformed because of the work we're doing together.
Speaker 2:But I was a competitive dancer since I was four. I did Royal Conservatory of Music since I was six, I graduated Honors High School, university and Royal Conservatory. Like, I've always lived this very high expectation type of life and it really as amazing as that is there was very little space for my own failures, for my own failures, for my own humbleness and just being okay with that. Oh my gosh, I'm not perfect. Oh, okay, so that so, and I'm still lovable. So I think that's a lot. You know, when I work with women, that's the kind of women that I attract, the ones that are just like beating themselves up because they don't, they're not perfect 110% of the time.
Speaker 2:And so you know, one of you know, when I think about my values or when I, when I really think about them, my values that I discovered is it's fun freedom, family, faith and flow. So it's like when I get frustrated, when I feel overwhelmed, when I get anxious, I stop and I go. Okay, am I in integrity with my value system? And it's always a no.
Speaker 2:And I think a lot of times we get stuck in the doing this like it's a very masculine energy. Second, the doingness like it's a very masculine energy, and we need to be able to pause, get back into our feminine energy and that is in the beingness, the energy that flows from within. That then dictates how we do something, rather than just the doing right, like having sex, you could just go and physically do it, but for me, before you know, before that happens, I really work on my being, I work at getting to my feminine, I work on going into my gratitude, I go into appreciation and I get present to the awesomeness of my husband so you know, the action is still the same, but the beingness that propels that action is completely different.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to show up very, very differently. And so I think that's what a lot of people forget is that you could go through life doing these things. But what if you could go through life doing these things from a way of being? That would then be super powerful and, honestly, a lot more genuine, rather than this, like I have to do this, I have to, so it's all force and obligation, rather than a genuine, authentic place of love and service.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think. Yes, you said that perfectly and just to make sure I'm fully understanding you, I think what you're saying part of that self-love is allowing yourself to not be perfect and giving yourself freedom to do the things that align with your value systems and your interests. Rather than I have to do this, I have to show up this way, I value systems and your interests. Rather than I have to do this, I have to show up this way. I have to, I have to, I have to. And the more we feel like we have to do something, the further away we're drifting from being ourselves really. And I think real self-love is giving yourself permission to not be perfect. That doesn't mean don't strive to be better. It just means that being better is also making sure that you're aligned with what is better for you, not what you think is supposed to be better for you. So I kind of want to go a little bit deeper and get into the whole marriage topic. Right, because I said that I was.
Speaker 1:I had mentioned about 10 minutes ago that I was curious about your client who was at a point where he outgrew his relationship. Nothing was really nothing wrong or crazy is going on, but he just feels like she's no longer his person. Crazy is going on, but he just feels like she's no longer his person. So when we talk about marriage, do you feel like marriage should be lifelong? How should people think about marriage when they choose to embark on it? Because I know there are a lot of divorces but nobody really wants to get to that point and I think that's what your client is struggling with as well that guilt of we're married, we have a family, but now I want to leave it, even though there's nothing wrong. But I just know that they're not my person. So can you speak to that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, I think there's two distinctions. I think there's what I think marriage is about and I think then there's what my clients think marriage is about. I really don't. I'll share my point of view, but I don't expect my clients to have the same moral beliefs that I do. And this guy actually said to me he's like Janelle, I know you save marriages, but how about me? And I just said to him I said listenelle, I know you save marriages, but how about me? And I just said to him I said listen, I just want you to have an extraordinary life. That's what this is really about.
Speaker 2:And if having an extraordinary life is, you see, that without her, and you've really done the work, you've looked, you've made the effort, you've taken actions, you've been accountable, you've, you know, done everything you can possibly do to try to bring it back to that point, and it hasn't worked. And if you know, in your gut and I think that's the big thing is, we don't listen to our gut, we listen to what everybody else says we should do, if your gut says you're done, because he's been feeling this way for a couple of years, it's not like it just happened last week. And I said if you truly feel done, and when you think about the future and you think about it without her, you're excited and you're happy and you get to feel authentically you, because that was part of it. He's like I don't feel like I get to be me around her, and which is a big thing, right, you know. And so he's done it. But what's so cool is that you know, through coaching him, because his biggest fear was like how do I minimize the car? He calls it the carnage. I said consider it doesn't have to be carnage.
Speaker 2:Consider that if you include her, be vulnerable with her, share with her what you're doing, what you're dealing with, what you're grappling with, that, if you do choose to leave, that she doesn't feel like it's about her. She knows that it has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you and just the choices that you want to make in your life. And so he made this move last week and he's like Janelle, I did it and he's, like you know, did it. And he's like you know, she was upset but she got it and I he's like I expected her to just like be freaking out and crying, but because I've been sharing with her this whole journey of what I'm up to, she's able to accept where I'm at and we're now able to work on this completion as a team, rather than this ugly, messy thing and I think that's part of it is like you know, society tells us that marriage has to be ugly and messy and dramatic and you know and all these things, and it doesn't. It's really in the way we conduct ourselves. But again, it takes a whole level of. I honestly don't know how people will do it without a third person. I think you need that, that neutrality, that that person to be in the middle of it, without, without judgment and without bias, to really support them in that process. So I'm so like inspired by that.
Speaker 2:But back to your question.
Speaker 2:I think you know people ask me all the time Janelle, can I save my marriage? And my answer is always always yes, if you are both committed to it. But if one person is and the other person isn't, well, it's gonna be really, really hard. Now, it's not impossible, because I've worked with couples where one person wants to. Well, it's going to be really, really hard. Now, it's not impossible, because I've worked with couples where one person wants to. And then what I realized in doing the work privately is that they got work to do. And when they shift their energy, when they get responsible, when they stop being the victim, all of a sudden the other person starts to come back, starts to feel comfortable, starts to feel safe, starts to feel comfortable, starts to feel safe, starts to communicate more, starts to support and all of a sudden they have this whole new relationship. That was not possible before, just because one person was the change and that energy shifted the energy of everything else around them and that energy shifted the energy of everything else around them.
Speaker 1:That was brilliant, thank you. It's interesting. You said something about your client, about he didn't feel like he could be himself around her, wanting to do it the right way and seeking out your coaching, rather than just, you know, pulling the carpet from underneath her and having conversations with her and taking a couple years to think about it, because I think you know it shows how much he had a lot of love for her, yeah, and wanting to still protect that relationship, even though it would be taking on a different form and not husband and wife, but probably co-parenting and friends. So I really applaud how he went about that but also kind of understood and acknowledged. You know, I can't really fully be myself around this person and I do think it's important that you know when you're with a long-term partner, you should be with someone who you can be yourself around, even on your worst days and on your good days. I mean, I don't know every single thing about the intricacies of his life. Obviously, this is just an example, but I do think that that's important. And to your point about it takes two to tango If a relationship should work, it takes two people wanting to make it work.
Speaker 1:But to your point too that there's sometimes there's one person in the relationship, unfortunately, that tends to be more of an aggressor and has a heavier energy.
Speaker 1:That is actually putting a huge strain on the relationship. So once that person switches their energy, then their partner is able to come around and be like okay, this is a safer environment for me to work in, to kind of fix this relationship as well. So I also like that perspective and, you know, in general it makes me want to ask you I feel like there's this like gender war going on or at least that's what it seems like online a lot of times where it's like men against women but we want to date each other. But there's this level of intolerance on both sides or narratives that are, you know, spread often that I think keep people afraid of, like you said, opening up, being vulnerable and finding the right partner. So what is your take on the gender war? Do you perceive it that way? And also, what do you think women get wrong about men and what do you think men get wrong about women?
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are really great questions. I think I alluded to it earlier about the expectation. I think that's a big one. The one, the number one complaint of men about women and I agree with this is that and I think I talked a little bit about it earlier was just that there's so much expectation to be perfect and to know exactly what there is to do and men are emasculated. Men will do what they don't, are not naturally known to do and instead of being appreciated for it, they get criticized and judged and put down and so. And then we wonder why our men stop doing those things. And you know, when I talk to guys, guys are like well, why would I go do that? She's going to tell me I did it wrong anyway. So I'm just going to save myself the disappointment and rejection and just not do it.
Speaker 2:I think fear is a big piece. We have three or four really core fears fear of being alone, fear of being judged core fears, fear of being alone, fear of being judged, fear of rejection and fear of failure. And I think, until we can really understand that fear does not have to limit us that is just a thought, it's not like in reality and that we can take action despite a fear, like this guy right who wanted to, didn't want to leave his wife, but kind of did. He's like, you know, I'm scared what she's going to do. I'm scared of what she's going to say. I'm scared she's going to cry. I'm scared she's going to be angry. I'm like, yeah, and guess what she probably will. And if you just not resist it and just go into it knowing that she's totally allowed to feel that way and just honor that, maybe you can actually still, regardless of those fears, do what there is to do. And that's what he did.
Speaker 2:But it took, you know, it took a couple of weeks for him to get the guts to finally say so, cause he's a kind of a very soft man, he's a very he's a people pleaser and she's very strong like alpha woman, and so he would say something like I'm unhappy, or I don't know if this marriage is going to work. She's like, no, no, no, no, that's not happening. No, you're just, you're just making it up. You're, you know, you're just having a midlife crisis. There was just a lot, of, a lot of justification and excuses she created to invalidate how he's feeling, and so then he would question himself. He's like, oh, maybe I am just having a midlife crisis, oh, maybe I do need to go to counseling. But he's like I don't want to go to counseling, though. Like I don't see how couples therapy is going to make me change my mind. But because he was afraid to say no to her, he was just like, oh, okay, maybe, like no, just say no, right. So I think that's part of it. I think what else? So women, okay.
Speaker 2:So we talk about how we all want to feel appreciated, and so I'll say to a woman okay, go appreciate. If you want appreciation, here's your assignment. Go and appreciate your husband. And they get upset with me. Why should I do that? He doesn't do anything for me. Why does he have to do anything for him to be appreciated? Like, why can't you just appreciate him for the person that he is? You appreciate your kids. Your kids don't do anything. They're just, they make a mess. They eat your kids. Your kids don't do anything. They're just. They make a mess. They eat your food, they spend your, they spend your money, but you appreciate them. So why is that different from for a man? And I think you know if I'm really honest, I think that's been.
Speaker 2:The secret ingredient to my husband being this extraordinary husband is that I acknowledge the crap out of him, because I know his love language is verbal affirmations. I know that when he was a kid he got bullied because he was really fat. He got rejected. He was insecure. Girls would laugh at him when he would ask them out, and so for me to be like hey, you know what? You're an amazing human being, for no reason other than that you just are. He gets to feel validated and guess what? He lost a hundred pounds. This man is buff and ripped and gorgeous. He cooks, he cleans and I don't have to ask anything. He does it all because he wants to, and I think it's because I appreciate him.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what's missing in marriages a lot, because, at the end of the day, honestly, men just want to make us happy.
Speaker 2:Like when I get people to fill out, like what are your goals for our work together?
Speaker 2:Women are like I want my husband to do this, I want him to support me, I want him to do, do, do, do, do. Men, I just want to feel appreciated, that's all. And I just my heart, just like oh, I get it, I get it. And it's so simple and yet so difficult. But again, like this is the power of coaching when I can just keep reiterating that and they see that I'll just say to them just try it, just for this week, just try what I'm saying to you, and all of a sudden they come back. They're like, oh my God, my husband's a totally different man. Yeah, it's not that hard. But again, I think we are just, we're so chintzy I don't know if that's a bad word but we're just so chintzy when it comes to appreciation, because we're like someone should do something really big in order to gain my quote, unquote appreciation. So now we're training people that they have to be or do something in order to be valuable in this world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what do you think men get wrong?
Speaker 2:about women. I think the simple one is that emotions are bad and that the other thing, too is men always think it's their fault, right, and that's why this whole criticism and judgment thing is is very, very tedious is that we really need to be able to change the way we communicate and Like, even if he gets it wrong, say you know what, thanks anyway, like I appreciate the effort and can I just show you a better way to do things Right? It's not like this condescending tone. And I think for men, you know, I imagine especially men when they come to me as little five-year-old boys who just say can you please just love me? Right, they just want to make us happy, they just want to be like good boy, and I don't mean that in a condescending way, but let's think about it Like the little part of us just wants to be loved, just wants to be accepted, just the way we are, right, and I think for men that's even more more so. So, yeah, I would say that that's the number one thing, is the communication, the emotions, and that it's not their fault and that they have to listen. So here's one distinction that I would teach.
Speaker 2:I would say consider that under every complaint is a desire, so don't listen to the complaint. You want to listen, for what is it that they actually want? Now, that's coming from a very empowered place versus the oh crap, I screwed up, she doesn't love me. She's telling me I'm not good enough. She's telling me I'm a terrible father. She's telling me I'm a terrible husband. No, she has a desire that she's asking, and she's just communicating it in a way that maybe doesn't work. But if you know how to listen, you're not going to get triggered, because then what happens is then now the walls go up, now he goes into his cave and he shuts down, he numbs out, goes to play video games or whatever he does to numb out, and that's what we don't want. And so we need to learn how to, first of all, get responsible about how we communicate, and then, secondly is like how do we bring respect and communication into it so that we actually both get what we want?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you said the perfect words respect and communication. I think for a lot of women, I think there are just certain things that we tend to be a little bit better at than men, like sometimes, for example, when it comes to planning. So we might end up being nitpicky about how certain things are done. But, to your point, I think men need to recognize that as a strength and not necessarily you're not good enough, you don't know how to handle this, et cetera. But I also think that for a lot of women, I think it's in our nature to be nurturing. But I think that there's been a history of where I think, just because of how the world was, you know, very patriarchal. Uh, you know, men are the providers, women are the nurturers. So we kind of found ourselves having to do that. It comes off like an expectation, it's in our nature, but sometimes it comes off like an expectation. So I think women get really frustrated when their partner you know, the man that they're with does not acknowledge that part of them. So it feels like they're not being appreciated, Right, kind of like the same way you're talking about that. You know, a man doesn't have to do anything for them to be appreciated, and I think most women want to be with a man that allows them to fully be them. They're fully, you know, immerse themselves in their feminine energy, because that man is really honoring them as well and acknowledging and treating them well.
Speaker 1:Right, like when you talk about your husband and how well he treats you. I think it's, you know, granted, you love him so much he doesn't have to do that for you to love him. But I'm sure that helps, right, you know, with with how well he treats you and how well he takes care of you. You know you automatically build that level of respect and, you know, adore him because of how nicely he's treating you. Right, I also think about, you know, I'm my dad, right, he's a girl that, and he's very much like you know, when he comes to see me, he's like, what do you need me to do? Like, do you need to hang this up on your wall? Have you looked at your car? And he's my dad. He doesn't need to do that for me to love him. It's just kind of built in me, but it makes me love him so much more, it makes me respect him so much more, and I think a lot of women sometimes get frustrated, especially when they have children, and it's like, well, I'm, you know, breastfeeding, I'm doing all of this and you're just kind of chilling on on the couch and it's Valentine's day and you couldn't even get me flowers, right?
Speaker 1:So it's like, how can I appreciate you when there are opportunities for you to kind of appreciate me? And I'm not talking for everyone, right, it's not like a man versus woman, but I'm just trying to speak for the women who might have that frustration and be like you know. So that was a lot of that was a rant but I'll stop and have you here's, yeah, here's.
Speaker 2:Here's the issue I come up up against. There is no communication about the expectation. That's the problem. There has to be communication and an agreement about what is required and needed.
Speaker 2:Listen, my husband didn't come out like this out of the box. You know, when we first started dating, I was very clear, like here's what I expect, here are my values, here's what I think a man and a woman or marriage should look like, here's what you can expect from me, here's what I expect from you. And so I think our relationship is so easy because we completely know what is expected of each other. And when there's a breakdown, it's not from a place of wrong making or blame, it is really from, like, a team effort. It's like, okay, we have this breakdown and here's what I can get responsible for. I assumed that you were going to go do that and I did not. I did not communicate or check in with you of that. So next time I'm. So this is, this is our conversation. It is always and this is the funny and the cute thing about us we both take over, like we're overly responsible. So he'll take responsibility for things that are mine and I'll take responsibility for things that are his. And so we're actually fighting about whose responsibility it is and I'm like, honey, no, no, no, that was me. And he's like no, no, no, baby, that was me, like I should have you know, and it's just, it's so opposite of, like most couples. But I think again back to my point is there exists in communication, not just any communication, in this empowering, not demanding, not nagging, not passive, aggressive, like really from a place of maturity. And I think you know back to what we talked about in the first few minutes, it's like we have these assumptions of how men should treat us, how they think about.
Speaker 2:I tell my husband baby, when I'm upset, I need you to look at me, I need you to turn the TV off, I need you to just shut your mouth and listen. Don't try to fix me, don't try to change me, don't give me advice. And when I'm done, I need a hug, I need you to tell him you love me and I need you to go get me some ice cream. And so every single time he knows exactly the formula, that he needs to follow the instruction manual, so that at the end of it I'm like, oh, baby, thank you. That was exactly what I expected from you. But I set him up to win and I think a lot of people don't I would say 99.9% of people do not have that conversation before things happen.
Speaker 2:So, like if we have a reoccurring argument that sounds very familiar and there's like this, this, this, this, this consistent back and forth, we'll actually talk about it. So it's like, you know, one of the conversations is about when you know and this hasn't happened. Honestly, we haven't had a fight in like 10 years. But there's this thing where he would talk and I would get frustrated and I would say, hey, honey, I'm getting really frustrated, this conversation isn't going anywhere and I need to go for a walk, I need a timeout. And he would not let me have my timeout.
Speaker 2:He would keep talking and talking and I would say, honey, if you don't stop, I'm going to get really upset and I'm probably going to say something really mean, because that's my way of defending myself, right, I get really mean.
Speaker 2:Kept going, kept going. So that's what happened and it kept happening over and over again, and so I had to just have this conversation with him and I'm like you need to give me my five minutes. And he said to me like he was so honest. He's like babe, the reason I don't give you that five minutes is I'm scared that you're going to leave and you're not going to come back. And I'm like no, honey, I just need that to come back from my crazy brain to think like a normal person and to just get out of my, out of my emotions so that I could actually have a rational conversation with an adult, like with me. And he's like oh, okay, so now that we have this understanding, it never happened ever again. And when I say I need a time out and honestly I don't even need timeouts anymore because we are so good at communicating things and we're such a team Like again we probably haven't had an argument in like 10 years it's so easy, but yeah, it takes work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I love that level of communication because there's like self-awareness baked into that. I think a lot of times people are communicating but they're not even self-aware about what's driving them. I love that your husband was like I'm scared you're going to leave. Like, if you take that five minutes, you're going to come back and be like, oh deuces, I'm out of here and you're just kind of like, no, I actually need that. So I don't, you know, bite your head off. So that level of self-awareness to communicate so tactfully, I think is really important and I think a lot of people don't have right and we're all a work in progress and you know the term oh, that's toxic, you're in a toxic relationship is thrown out so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that whenever people run into a season of having lots of uncomfortable arguments and conversations, they're like, oh, this is so toxic. This is not my person and you know I'm. There's a part of me that believes that relationships shouldn't be that hard. If you're two people who want the relationship and you want to work towards it and you're self-aware and you know how to communicate, I don't think it should be that hard. But I also know that there's a there's another part where you have to get to, you know, learn each other. So how can someone tell when, okay, this is not the relationship for me? Because, honestly, sometimes you get to a point where it's like, no matter how much you communicate, you just kind of realize like we're not actually as compatible versus like no, there's something here that should be worked out. It's not necessarily toxic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think, before I even answer that, I think one of the things that we have to remember and this is I'm going to point to the ego for a minute we have to remember that it's not about us how people behave, it's not about us, it's about them, and we take things so personally. We think, you know, oh, they're not talking, they're in a weird mood, it must be something I'm doing. You know, oh, they're not talking, they're in a weird mood, it must be something I'm doing. You know, and you know, talking about self-awareness in that last conversation, you know I'm super again communication with my husband.
Speaker 2:I'm like, babe, just so, you know, like I'm totally dealing with myself right now and I'm kind of in a crappy mood. So, just so you know, like I'm a little grumpy because X, y, z happened today and I just want you to get it's not about you and I'm just working on myself, and so he doesn't have to read into anything, he doesn't have to ask me am I okay? Every five minutes and same thing with him. Like if I can feel his energy funky, I'll check in with him once or twice. I'll be like, hey, everything okay. He's like, yeah, baby, I'm just. You know I'm dealing with work stuff. Okay, great, don't have to think about it, don't have to make it personal. I can go and do my own thing and not have to worry about him. But I think sometimes we just take things so personally and we think everybody else's behavior is because of us.
Speaker 1:We did something wrong. Yes, that used to be my problem. I would love to think that, oh, I'm this like super self-aware person.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm getting better and better every single day and I always try my best to show up the best you know in all of my relationships, whether romantic or, you know, friendships or family relationships. But one of my weakest points was taking people's stuff and making it about me, because I also have this savior complex which I'm actively working through all the time. Yeah, so I used to be like, oh my God, what did I do? Is it me Like? Wasn't I fun enough? Wasn't I like happy?
Speaker 1:enough myself and I always felt like how I would show up in relationships was in direct correlation with how someone should feel, and sometimes, a lot of times, most times, it has nothing to do with you at all. So that was a great point. I used to just take it so personal all the time and I always.
Speaker 2:I used to always think everybody was talking about me. Like as soon as I would see people like whispering, especially like in elementary school, and I just saw two people doing this, I automatically thought they were talking about me.
Speaker 1:Wow, I don't know why yeah, no, and you know it's so funny. Even when people tell me it's not about you, I'm just upset, I would still think you're lying because you've been upset forever and some people are just upset. I think it's an ego thing, too feeling like I had.
Speaker 1:So much power, I'm so important and it's like a backwards kind of ego thing. But yeah, it's so funny that you said that, because I just recently, a couple months ago, realized like, oh my God, this is what I'm doing, you know, and why certain interactions are so uncomfortable for me, more than they actually need to be.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and it really helps us to remind ourselves. Because here's the thing, when we are in judgment mode, we are not in love mode, right, and so when we automatically have that ego or even the lack of self-love for us, we're always like we're anxious and we're paranoid and we think everyone's out to get us or nobody loves us. What we're not doing is we're not being present, we're not being connected, we're not being authentic. It's all, again, all about survival and again, this is, I think, why the world, families, marriages, relationships break down. There's just these self-awareness gaps that we have and sometimes, no matter how many books or seminars you do, you sometimes can't see your own. Well, no, I should say, sometimes you can never see your own blind spot.
Speaker 2:You need someone to be like hey, do you notice? You do this thing, and I do that for my clients, and I have to train them right in the beginning that this is not about me nitpicking you or making you wrong. This is about me showing you where your suffering is coming from, so that you can get freedom from it, because you don't even realize that you've put yourself in this prison until I say to you do you notice? You're in a prison right now Right, but they're like what? So I think that's it, and and again, it's all the ego. And if we've lived a life that has been very, you know, embedded in trauma and rejection and abandonment, then that's just like, and guilt guilt is a big one that we're just like. It's so hard to escape what we it's like. It's like a fish realizing that they're in water, like they've just always been in water. They don't know they're in water, they just that's just their environment.
Speaker 1:and until someone says, do you realize that you're swimming in water, you're like oh, I didn't even know that yeah, you're so right and I know we've been talking for a while, but the the question I had asked and this is our final question before we wrap it up was just kind of like the difference between being in a toxic situation when you kind of realize like, okay, you know what, no amount of communication here is going to work because there's a gap versus actually there is promise here, and it's not necessarily a toxic situation, because I feel like people just throw that out so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we just need to stop using the word toxic, I think, because here's the thing Toxic is just a label, and labels make us small, and I think we just need to deal with what's so like, the what so of it. So what I when I mean the what so of it is like what are my value systems? What are your value systems? Do I want kids? Do you want kids? How do I perceive? What does an actual marriage look like? Or what does a wife look like? Or what does a husband look like? It's like that clear, right.
Speaker 2:I think, though, there are definitely ways of being like. I think, for men I don't know what it is about men they love to lie. It's a thing that's like a knee jerk reaction, and women are like why do you need to lie? But men are always afraid to get in trouble, so they would just. That's just what they do, is they lie, and so for a lot of people, that could be the defining moment. It's like I just can't be with someone who lies, and it's not like they're a bad person, it's just this knee-jerk reaction they do, but that could occur as being toxic.
Speaker 2:But I think again, I think we need to just strip away the labels and just deal with the what so? They're not honest, they don't keep their promises. We don't have the same value system. It is absent of judgment. It is just in the what so I want kids. You don't. I go to. You know, god is really important to me. It's not to you, right? But the word toxic creates this like again, this barrier, this judgment, this limitation, so any of those kind, even like the word narcissist. I don't use that word. I'm like, okay, what's so is that they, they don't hear your feelings. What's so is that they shut down and they don't, you know, like whatever the, the symptoms are. But I again, I really try to stay away. Even words like respectful, like what does that even mean From? You know, respect is means one thing to a person which means something different to someone else. So even that's a label. So it's like, tell me the what. So what is it that they say? What is it that they do?
Speaker 1:Yes, I think you're spot on. I think people overuse the word narcissism because on some level, sometimes when I read the characteristic traits.
Speaker 1:I'm like I have at least one of these. I might not have all 20, but I think we all have narcissistic traits. Are there malignant narcissists out there, people who genuinely have a problem and really do affect people? Absolutely, but I don't think the majority of people are narcissists. I think the majority of human beings are flawed. That's kind of part of our programming. So I agree with you, I really like that what's so perspective, and I also think there's an element to also doing what works for you and not looking for your relationship to look like everyone else's.
Speaker 1:I was listening to something where a woman said that her husband does not care to go to work events. But she would show up at these events and her friends would be like oh, where's your partner? And she started to feel bad about her husband, her partner, not coming to these events. But deep down she genuinely did not care. She was like he doesn't like it. Okay, I'm not going to force him to be there. So she had to kind of take a step back and realize well, he doesn't like it, I don't really care that he's not there. So I need to make sure that whenever people are projecting onto me, that's their stuff, I don't. I don't need him to be there, it doesn't really bother me. So I think that's also a good point too, because I think people have their expectations come from the outside world and they use that to judge their relationship exactly, yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's again back to why we have to know who we are, why we are the way we are, love the way we are, but also be really clear about okay, where is the area of focus for me to grow in order to become the person that I want to become?
Speaker 2:And you know, in this society we spend so much time doing busyness aka Netflix or whatever that we do to use up our time and we don't invest enough time going inwards, because sometimes we don't like what we see or we just don't know what to do with that thing that we see, which is why, again, it's so important to have someone to support you in the right ways to accomplish that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's a great way to end the conversation. I feel like everything kind of came back full circle. Yeah, janelle, you are a breath of fresh air. You have so much wisdom. I really enjoyed speaking with you. I have to ask for final words of wisdom. You dropped so many gems. So if you have any final words of wisdom that you kind of keep in your back pocket as you go through life that you'd like to share with the audience, yeah, I'm going to say this is usually the first thing I tell my clients when they start with me.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the basis of the work. Pain and suffering only exist when you resist what is so. Pain and suffering only exist when you resist what is so. What that means is that when you have it like I shouldn't be this way, he shouldn't be this way, my parents shouldn't be this way, my body shouldn't be this way, that resistance is what first of all drains us of energy, of love, of everything beautiful, and we just focus on what's wrong and we avoid and we resist. But what if we just got the hey, my life is the way it is right now, my finances are the way it is right now, my partner is the way and it's okay.
Speaker 2:So you know, when I get stuck on something, I ask myself what am I resisting? Am I resisting their communication? Am I resisting the way I'm feeling about their communication? Am I making it mean something about myself? And when I can just get that, maybe that's just a trigger I have and I'm just going to go and work on that, or maybe it's like, maybe I just need to be. I need to work on my self-love right now and just be okay with where I'm at, I feel like, and then bringing in forgiveness into that, into the mix.
Speaker 2:When we can start to strengthen these, I guess emotional muscles, if you will, or mental muscles, then we can really start to create something that is so beyond what we even see is possible for our lives. And so I, you know. And so when my clients come and like, here's my problem, about my weight, my this, and I say, okay, pain and suffering only exists when you resist. What's so, when you can just love your body the way it is and say you know what I'm beautiful and you know what. My husband might not be perfect, but you know what he's pretty darn good, and you know what. The world isn't perfect, but I can see the beauty and the potential that there is and I can see the goodness in the world. Now we're in this mode of acceptance, of gratitude and peace wow, that was.
Speaker 1:That was so good, that was so good. Pain and suffering persist when you resist what is. Oh, that's a bar, and that is so true. I think the moments in my life where I've been able to forgive myself and forgive others and be in a state of peace was when I accepted what is. That doesn't mean accept and not try to work towards being better, but I think it allows you to be in the present moment and be like okay, this is what it is. I love that. Pain and suffering persist when you resist what is. You resist what the reality of situations are.
Speaker 2:Because we're such control freaks.
Speaker 2:And if we can just let go of the handlebars a little bit and if you're a spiritual person, trust that where you are right now, what you're dealing with, is for your benefit, for your highest good, that there is an actual opportunity, not a challenge, not a burden, not a curse, right. That it is actually perfect, there's nothing wrong. And the more I do this work, the more I really step into my new relationship with God and seeing him as my co-pilot, you know, I can really just start to let go and be like, hey, you know what it is what it is, and if this client is a yes, great. If a client is a no, that's perfect too, because I trust that who is meant to be in my life and who I'm supposed to be in whose life is perfect.
Speaker 1:Trust. Trust is the big word there, Ah this is so good. I feel like you and I we could probably talk for like five hours, but where can people find you if they want to follow you for more content, learn more about you and kind of get into the work that you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm on Facebook, but you know my website is JanelleGreencom. Or you can go to SaveOurMarriageca and I usually workshops going on, or I have my latest podcast that I post in there, but you can see pictures of me and my hubby. But you know, I think that's a great place to start to get to know me, and seeing if you know where you're at in your life is something that I can really support you with Amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, janelle, for stopping by A Word to the Wise Amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, janelle for stopping by A Word to the Wise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my pleasure. You can follow A Word to the Wise on Instagram and TikTok at. A Word to the Wise Pod. We're also on YouTube at A Word to the Wise Podcast. Please be sure to subscribe If you are enjoying the show. Please rate, leave a review, share and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Till next time, peace and love, always, always, always.